http://www.cargame.nl/dl_s1.php?id=278054
i know this isnt a report,but what happened got me really annoyed,i was accused of being a dirty driver when i had a battle with D-R-TDrben@mouse(drben)
i was battling him for second place,towards the end of lap 3,i made a pass at the last corner,then made a mistake at following chicane which allowed him to pass back,but i outbraked him and kept close to kerb on inside and completed a 2nd pass,he repassed me and after me attempting a 3rd pass,he spectated and at 10.40 called me `not clean `
do you think i was aggressive?

i was tight against the guardrail at pass1,in control,not running wide and he turned into me.

pass 2 i was tight on the kerb when he turned into my rear door,not running wide

pass 3 he turned into my door again which `straightened my turn in` and sent both of us off.

from 10 40, he moaned and moaned so i would love your opinion on my driving,just to put me at ease.
the fun starts at 8m45s
Tango

At first pass at the right hairpin, I think it was his fault for touching. You braked better and had the inside line, he should have given you some space.

At second pass at the left hairpin, he also braked far too soon (so it was normal for you to pass him at the brakes) but you went a bit too hard there, so not clear for me.

At third pass I think it was your mistake, it is a very high speed turn (and you were both driving road cars) and, as far as I am concerned, this turn is a no-no for a braking overtake, especially for road cars. You also were going too fast and with a very bad line, you would go off course with this driving anyway (was he there or not). Although, the reason HE went off course was, ultimately, his mistake (over correction) and not your touch, but you get the point.

A nice way to check if you were clean, is to ask yourself If you would dive like this in real life. I think not, except the nice first.

First pass from your side was ok, risky but ok. You managed to brake on time.
Second pass was a bit of a divebomb, you couldn't brake for apex, but used him to slow you down.
Third pass... well let's say it was more than optimistic

It's good that you yourself put this for commenting, means you want to learn
So, IMO only the first pass from your side was ok, others were not.

none of us would drive like we do,no broken bones if you mess up !!
i still think pass 2 was clean,i hit my normal marker (75m) and he braked early,the contact was very light but he turned into me(view it from above) and i was close to kerb,nor going wide and still in control
pass 3 is a tricky passing place,but can be done in the slower cars,just before contact,his nose is pointing towards the grass,as if he turned too early(or did he want a collision?)
i know he was a mouse user but he just seemed to turn in early in earlier battle with other fxo,deliberately cutting his nose off.
Tango

It was a bit clear that he didn't use the mirrors and side look very much, if he had, none of these would happen. But I insist that the last 2, as sermilan said, were not so clean.

Nice from you to ask for opinions and not insulting, you don't get to see this often

1st was acceptable.
2nd was a lost corner.
3rd was dumb.

1st was OK
2nd was.. well, depends how you look at it. IMO he should have given you some space, as you wouldn't overshoot it, but he just kept his line, which went to very kerb on the inside.
3rd was asking for miracle. Even without contact there was no way in hell you'd make that turn.

Ye, but 2 things are different now:

1. you're not on the racing line but more to the inside, which means you have to slow your car more than usual. When you take the corner from the far right you can go through it safely with, let's say 50 kmh. But when you're coming from the inside, a tighter line, you can't go through it doing 50 kmh, because you'll miss the corner on the exit, so it has to be lower.
2. dirty tires

I generally agree with these views.
1st one was a great pass, even if you had braked too late, you were already alongside him, so he should leave space. As it was, your braking was perfect.

2nd one is 50/50 - & I mean 50/50 whether you should have chanced it or not. You were coming from a long way back there so it was really a 'dive'. It just depends when he was going to start to turn-in & I think he started a bit early. Also, you did brake just a little too late for that move. Easy to say in hindsight.

3rd was just too optimistic. If you already had some overlap, then he could expect you to hold that line, but it all happened in the short braking point & I don't think he was expecting it. From that far back, I think you could expect a high chance of a collision.

Of course, as always, you're trying to race fair & not just push him out of the way, so all can be forgiven.
Also, he did get pushed badly by the FXO earlier in the race, so he was probably angry already.

I'd also like to add to sermilan's comment about 'normal braking point' for anyone else who is reading this (not for you guys!). If there is a car directly in front of you & you both brake at your normal braking point, then you will hit that car. You have to brake earlier! Can't change the laws of physics. You might even be surprised that you don't necessarily lose any time doing that...

1st was a nice job.

2nd was almost good. You was a little too fast in this corner. But still ok because it was a fight for pos.

3rd yeah, you drove into his line. He couldnt take a wider line without going into grass. Thats why it is in general a no overtaking corner for me. Overtaking is possible there only when the opponent will cooperate. But you cant nerver count on this nor expect it.

Hello there,

l'd like to answer Tango' request myself, as well. Unfortunately after writing some lengthy words to further add to the details I forgot to save my text before hitting "Post Reply" and the time-out got to me -- stupid me!

So in short: thank you Tango for that interesting race! We got to battle it out on some of the most-technical corners of fern bay and in fact the entirety of lfs. Yes, I didn't use the side-look-button as much as I should have done. I was a bit too "stiff" in my fingers, I admit. On the exit of the "small oval" I had to use a more pronounced weight-shift technique in order to get the balance down and clear the corner with some good throttle. That must have surprised you since - as a wheel user - you were set up onto a less vulgar line, keeping to the inside first to take the rest of the variously sloped corner smooth and wide.

When charging down the following straight, I was a bit surprised though. I was really confident to hit the long-right sweeper at near-optimum pace, chose a line as wide and fast as possible. It felt just right... ...until we both made contact throwing both our cars out of balance and into a big spin.

After biting the dust I decided that my race was over. I was actually surprised when we bumped into each other. You showed earlier that you are indeed not slow. Actually after watching the replay I know we were pretty much neck-at-neck in overall lap-time and speed. You bumped my car at spot that you wouldn't have possibly showed up, had you attempted to take the corner "on the asphalt". Why I know this? We both were driving XRTs -- and very much so on the limit of grip.

I was a bit taken aback by this incident. Yes, we chipped each other's paint a litte beforehand. But that all ended up not to be harmful, at all. I admit to have been pumped up by it and all - but this is part of racing. Until that spin it seemed all-good. And yes it's true: I was a little angry about that FXO, ploughing his way through me, rather than around me beforehand. Might have played a bigger role affecting my posture than I would have liked it to.

Thus when I commented in-chat about this being "not so clean" - I was referring only to that last little bump causing us both to spin-out. That was a bit more than just unfortunate since what it did was ultimately ending a very challenging race with a very sincere and quite joyful battle we had going on.

Well, mistakes do happen. I made some, as well. Nontheless I thank you for actually calling this post's title a "request" rather than a report. This way I can convey my thoughts way better to you and everyone than I could have possibly done in the text-chat further on that night. If you thought I was accusing you of bad driving in a general sense, I sincerely apologize. In fact I enjoyed our battle very much.

Unfortunately not all battles come with a happy ending for everyone involved. I thereby whole-heartedly accept I lost that race and look forward to seeing you again on the racetrack!

PS.: Maybe you would have left me long-gone had you not used up most of your clutch' heat-capacity.
Hint: flat-shifting will not make you faster the longer the race takes. Try to lift the throttle on up-shifts - even if this causes you to lose that last 10% of boost with turbo-driven engines.

thanks for reply,ive never been accused of bad driving before so was rather annoyed,yes the last incident wasnt my best bit of driving,but i was confident of making the corner and keeping it on track,thanks again for close racing.
Tango