Okay, not starting this to pick a fight.

I am inexperienced with the FZ5, but I am sure anybody will agree that the FWD UFR/B has way better roadholding through a turn than the FZ5, braking points and accellerating points are also different - FWD compared to RWD.

I joined the race late, and as always I try to not interfere with anyone's race, not passing except on straights or when I can do it without a chance of killing someone laps up on me.

So I pass a UFB driver on the short straight leading towards the final chicane on AS1 (FZ5 is way faster than UFB), as I was laps down, I got blue flagged, but entered the chicane before the UFB. The UFB accellerated, I braked, obviously the UFB driver hit me, being way smaller and lighter, he had an accident.

The UFB driver could've waited until both of us were safely through the chicane - no places won or lost.

His response was that I was under blue flag and should've waited for him until he entered the chicane, mine was that being blue flagged does not mean that, I MUST give way as soon as safely possible, but have the right to keep my line as long as I am not blocking. This chicane is not a turn where safe passing or leaving the racing line is safely possible (right? wrong?)

Sure, it is possible to go through the chicane faster than what I did, but the handling of the blue flag is the issue here, not my experience or racing ability (I know I am slow, but also that I am mostly careful and respectful).

In any case the verbal exchange was civil, and I will apologise to Solaris1985 if I am wrong.

Any comments will be appreciated.

http://www.cargame.nl/dl.php?id=356049, last lap, final chicane

In a nutshell the rules say folowing:
For the blue flagged: Move out of the way, but only if you feel its save
For the guy that has to overlap: Treat the blue flagged like he's a normal opponent.

I'm now gonna check the replay and then say sth about it

My opinion you could have been moving out of the way, you were not fighting for a position and as you said you knew you would be slower in the chicane...

You don't only have a blue flag but you are also a midjoiner.

midjoiners have no rights, you are basically cruising. You have no goal there, other then killing time / building car handling experience.

You should have give way. Easy off, choose a quieter place on the track.


He might have been on a very fast lap.

Not sure if dadoml meant "move out of the way" just for mid-joining. So I might just throw the normal blue flag situation in. Won't harm anyone if I do


Straight: Choose your side on the track. Left or Right. The easiest case in a blue flag situation since you have enough time to prepare for it. It's important that you don't cross the track once the lapping car is too close.


Exit: So you were way ahead and could "claim" the corner. Meaning he wasn't beside you on turn-in or is even further back. The lapping car will most likely take the inside on the exit of the corner. This means you take your normal racing line throughout the corner. From there on you take the line dictated by the exit. Meaning if you exit the corner on the left then you just continue driving on the left, even if it means an unfavorable line for the next corner.
Out of courtesy you can lift to not be beside him in the next corner if he was already stuck behind you in the previous corner. It's no rule but it's almost always safer and faster to shortly lift or brake earlier to take the racing line behind the lapping car for the next corner.


Entry: If no car is beside you on turn-in point then the above paragraph takes effect.
But if the lapping car is beside you on turn-in point you might have to take the outside/inside line depending on where you drove. It's a normal racing rule even for non blue flag situations. Just don't fight the lapping car and leave enough room.




With more experience one can recognize these situations easier. Though mistakes will still occur because of unique and difficult situations. A "sorry" and maybe a short explanation at the end of the race work wonders if you made a mistake or are unsure if you did one.

Thank you for the replies and taking the effort to check out the replay, also eXeYn for the clear explanation.

This post and argument was about a blue flag situation, not about a mid-join.

If 'midjoiners have no rights'`, they don't belong on the server and as such mid-joining should not be allowed. With no rights it is implied that they should not be treated with respect and that normal clean racing rules do not apply to them and that they may be barged out of the way whenever they are encountered. Anyway, I am not paying for the server or spending my free time replying to issues involving racing on the server, so if the server-owner or an admin of the server have such rules, it is their right and I won't argue further about it. As I don't like the 'no-rights' rule, I will refrain from future mid-joining, though it is a very common practise on cargame.nl S2, even on short, overpopulated tracks where 'getting out of the way' is impossible.

The blue-flag rule is a subjective rule where-in the lapper and lapped have both responsibilities and rights dictated by the situation, the car and the drivers' abilities. The following thread and link probably said most that need to be said:

post71146.html

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Clean_Racers_Club_Rules

I am fully aware of the blue-flag rule and the first thing I did when starting with LFS was to study these rules, my interpretation may differ, as it differs among respondents even in the above thread. In my opinion, my treatment of the blue-flag was fair, no malice were intended by me not parking in front of the chicane, hitting the tyres or driving into the sandpit, which were my options. I also was not attacking a driver for position as that would've being senseless being a mid-joiner with serveral laps down and under blue-flag.

A sincere apology, Solaris1985, for interfering with your race - I was a mid-joiner and as such violated the mid-joining rule - please do not read sarcasm in this, none intended at all.

I enjoy and learn a lot racing on the cargame.nl servers, so will abide by the rules.

Regards
- Gerrit/Jettascuba

Why?

Like I say, if you want to get familiar with the track/car/set for the next race thats perfectly fine as long as you do not interfere with the ongoing race.

And thats not that hard, just find the correct entry point when exiting pit.



Yes, very good.



Yeah, in most cases everybody can go along pretty well with each other. For some specific people I want to block midjoining but that sadly is not possible (yet).

Barging midjoiners out of the way is allowed?

Nah.......

Well.. The problem is that you cannot easily see if it's a midjoiner or someone who gets lapped and really is participating in the ongoing race.. But other then that, yes why not.

It's really the arrogance of the mid joiner to just interfere in an ongoing race.

Agree, but this HAS to be stated clearly as blue flag rules on CG.
The problem is (as seen is the previous two posts), there's yet no consensus on whether mid-joiners should stay out of the way of everyone in the race or not. It's still in the "I think" phase.

They should stay out of the way even for slower classes IMO, but it has to be defined one way or another.

Newcomers might get confused and they would do it not because of arrogance, but because of lack of knowledge.

99% of the community here is not gifted with reading. It's even worse with newcomers. So that is a bit problematic.

Brilliant suggestion was to link midjoining with safety rating... SR <90% = no midjoin or something... But .. Well... Airio development ended

[EQWorry] http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=52368&page=13

Also FULL version makes use of safety ratings (that seem to be working pretty good). It is possible to limit race joins by required safety rating both on server level and specific car type level. This allows to create tiered servers or tiered car types on one server (where tiered means splitting drivers by safety rating ranges). This is done by configuration items functioning exactly as those limiting race joins by rank (points) or licence (lap time).

Yes, that is about joining a race in general. Not -mid-joining.

Appreciate your help though

you'll have to come up with a test for new comers about the rules, then they'll have to read them

make them read rules than ask them a test of 10 questions