Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?xy7ub6o2a8794lu
Aggressors: \RPM>JeanRag. (lfs username: capo-008-rag)
What happened? This guy feels it is ok to simply punt people who are on blue flag out of the way. I think he expects slower cars to jump out into the grass or walls in order to let him pass. I tried to talk to him after the race (and others tried too) but his attitude was the worst possible.

Watch at:
3:23 - Has plenty of room to go on the inside, but chooses to crash straight into me, sending my car on a spin off track.
6:57 - Punts me out of the way even though he has plenty of room to overtake on the inside. He actually apologises, but at:
9:42 - Punts another guy out of the way (Enrico Araujo).

Watch the conversation from 10:20 onwards. It is clear that his apologies were ironic, since he thinks people should simply throw themselves out of the track just because they are under blue flag so that this guy, who thinks is the king of the road, can have his racing line unhindered.

Childish behaviour and immature driving. Please send him on a vacation so he can think about improving his manners and maybe learn some proper racing etiquette and how to respect other drivers.

Yes this is not tolerable. Two weeks off.

Or a good explanation here, why showing such disrespect to other racers.

Yes, I hope he thinks about what he will write here.

Hi, i wanted to reply this report. Why such anger/rage from a racer!? That's the kind of person you want on your server?
Look, i know i was wrong about every hit i made there, but i dont think its all my fault. See... on your server, if a faster car, like FRR... or in this case an XFR its going to overtake a XFG, you know you will be overtaked, so why dont you safely give the line?
Its what i do everytime i get laped by leaders... pulling off the gas and giving the best line so their car pass without any complication. Why dont everybody do that?
In some part of the replay when i hit Mtrein, i was making my fastest lap if you check, he had blue flag on him... i dont remember the other ones. I said sorry about what i did later, i dont have bad intentions when im racing, you can check my safety rate, i couldnt have reach 94% if i were crashing everyone. Ask to some regular players from the server, i always respect blue flags and i say sorry when i cause a crash or something. Or if you want, you may check what it was my demo user: Borashio... you'll see im not an ugly racer.
And also, i dont see Mtrein usually on the server, im online everyday... and everyday happen worst thing like this one, you know that nl2dav.
2 weeks i thinks its too much time, i take the clame on the crash i caused. Its a hard thing to discuss, there is XFR against a XFG, cars get close too quick and if the other racer dont know the rules or has bad skills... obviously we will crash :S and by the way, i think we were racing moments ago, on AS1R or something, he was on line i think, you can check "how" i was racing.



I think that we could discuss about racing lines if you were on the same lap as me, battling for a position. Not when you are being lapped by leaders. I know very well that sometimes faster players must wait for the right place to overtake, but you got time to pull off the gas and give the best line.
Like i said i take the blame cause i was racing only to improve my PB, and thats the cause of the hit. Doesnt mean that im crashing people everywhere. And i say sorry, a little late but i said it. What do you want me to do? to kiss your feet? come on... im human being, i may make mistakes

[quote]I tried to talk to him after the race (and others tried too) but his attitude was the worst possible.[quote]

lol what you expect? there were 100 sentences from airio, server, etc and you keep complainig... i said sorry and thats it, you should have shown the next track race to see if kept crashing like you said.
i think you just have an oportunity to ruin someone and you take it...thats what we call an "opportunist" (beacuse of the deeply and hard way you are trying to ban me) and talks about the kind of person you are. I came from demo and believe me there is a lot of people like you, more than S2. I really dont know what motivate them to do this, maybe envy, personal problems? maybe because im from argentina and he is from brazil?? i hope he dont have that kind of thinking, he seems to be an "adult" right now. I really dont matter, that people CANT reach me

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2146 and LFS wiki.



Blue flagging is a common misunderstanding @LFS racers. I don't know why that is.. It's no green card to stay on the racing line as being the faster car and crash everyone off the road. Maybe you even have to brake more than normal to find a good spot to overtake a slower car safely.

At the first two crashes, blue flag was there for 3 seconds, you can't expect people to react that fast anyway.

And a still believe it was easy to pass without making any contact.


Every day there happen a lot of things yes. But these racers... Not only Mtrein, but also [SR] Iceman and some others, tried to reason with you.. But you avoid every discussion. Just smiling and saying, go ahead, report... It's a pretty arrogant way of communicating. You even said STFU according to someone.. I can look that up too, (see results page for replay downloads). But I'm too lazy for that now.

I'm not waiting on reports here, got better things to do. I like it when racers are going to discuss each others racing skills (or lack of it). If that fails, and have to make a posting... Then there are serious things going on...


Some race not everyday, if I give a week they don't care at all. I want that people start to think about what they do. It's one racer against ruining a race for multiple other racers... I or some other admin have to take someone out if it's too much time to discuss behavior in online chat or if there even is no discussion possible at all, like you showed.

You asked me if I was going to kick you... I said no... And banned you... How does that, no discussion just doing principal, feel?


You can say sorry, and you can say sorry.

I've noticed the smile at the first crash. You ruined someones lap/race ... And you smile? Not the appropriate way of making a excuse.

You hit the sorry button also after asking. Not really feeling very sorry in that case, I'm afraid.

WTF ? AS1 ? It is too little track for UFR and XFG difference... About Jean - maybe a bit drunked ? Trein - why on 2nd did you turn get out of a track with FXO and taked XFG ? You made that great difference. 1st crash was Jean fault. But on 2nd Trein should give room on outside, coz UFR on that track needs good racing line, or you get flipped,etc.
If there is AS1 or any small track, then always should watch on map when leaders is comming..
Of course, need a bit respect on slower cars

i know that, that why i wrote, thats its difficult to discuss cause they get closed too fast, its possible "an" accident.



I didnt smile in an arrogant way!!! Like i told you, i dont have fun smashing people!! and told him to stfu cause i didnt want to continue fighting about that, what is the need to keep talking? I said sorry and thats it, if they take it like i was being arrogant, thats their problem and it wasnt.
I told him to report, cause he is on his right, and cause i got how to defend myself. I really didnt want to talk to the guy. I just wanted to race to improve my pb like i said... well... its seems that i didnt to very good xD



Thx man, like i said i take the blame for the accindent. First one i know i got more space, but like i said i was making my fastest lap, in orden to keep it that way i looked the best line, and i hit mtrein in a rude way i know. Doesnt justified that i wanted to do my fast lap, was completely my fault there.
In the second accident he didnt gave enough room and we had contact... ohhh what a good situation to save a replay an make report? right? What a grear oportunity to make angry a guy and say stupidity things right? well im not like that. Thats why i said sorry, and explain my point of view and thats it. Doesnt mean that im arrogant.



did you really watch the replay??? Iceman wasnt even there. The only guy that said something was " \\I// " and the only thing that he said was "that you got a faster car doesnt mean that you can hit others" or something like that. And i know that very well.



When i say that i was joking cause i was in the server for more than 3 or 4 hours, and i thought you would say that i might go to sleep.
what i mean is that Im a regular user. How much mtrein spend on your server?



I think this measure its not the appropiated. I think you should spend more time spectating watching for bad maneuvers than racing. Cause in case like this one, you are being convinced for a lot of "bull)(/$)" that the reclaimer is doing. He convince you that i crash intentionally.
And if you want to change your servers behaviour, why dont you have in mind, all the people that makes your server to be what it is today, a great server, almost always full, and be more aware of oppotunist people. You get me?
Doing things wrong, could ruin your server. Now its only one thing, but if there were more like this guy? who you think that will be racing on your server anyway? Mtrein? pffff i dont think so.

To close this thing:
Look, to see the kind of racer that im. To see if im a crasher like mtrein said or if i just have a bad race... I upload this race i played on your server 4 o 5 days ago. It has all the thing i said on the post before. It has an accident where im envolved, and all the rules about lines, RESPECT!, etc. If this replay doesnt
convince you... well... i leave it right here. And i got more like it.
Please watch it all, from the beginning to the end. Just watch, dont analyse anything. (follow my car all the race please)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QCQ8AXEZ

You could watch it too Mtrein, maybe you learn how to race.

He was.. He talked about you after I banned you from the server. He said he also got some replay's of not so nice actions from you.



Thats Ted, and, good.


regular or not, it does not give you the right to crash other people more than normally.

I only make a decision to shorten a ban based on server loyalty.



This type of communication is not helping to solve this issue

I also got a lot of replays of people doing worst thing like this one. do you want me to send it to you? you will be 1 week watching replays, and banning for 999 days compared with this.


well you saw the replay i upload?? im a crasher? or i just had a bad race?

Causing three crashes in a race is bad yes. Especially if there is an easy way to prevent them. There is no need to provide other examples, just don't crash if you don't have to.


Do you have a normal driving license? If yes, do you also stick to 'the line' if someone else is driving in your way?

I have a car cam;


Link



Link


Any idea what would have happened if I think the way like you think?

Avoid crashing. Period.

If somebody blocks you, ask after race why... Start a discussion... But don't use your car as a weapon.

loool, this cant be. Did you see the entire battle with the other racer?? You are totally mindly blocked and its seems that you didnt get all what i said. You only saw the accident. Its not wrong to admit that you are wrong sometimes, but no, you are perfect right? Lets leave it here ok? no chance to get you in reason. So sad, you lose a good racer on your server. I hope it be only one.

PD: the videos are a totally a different thing than racing. You race when you are driving on your city?

PD2: i loved the music hahhahahaha

PD3: check all the post from Mtrein, are all ban post! nothing interesting to offer man??

Since the cargame servers are about mutual respect, nice racing and open mature communication I am dropping a post here. The reason I do this is because Jean Ragnotti sent me a PM in which he asks me, as being another admin, to look at this replay. So I will give you a reply in this topic, not by PM

First: Cargame.nl (admin) is handling this report and the consequences. That means that no other admin should get involved. I hope Jean Ragnotti understands that.

Second:
If Jean Ragnotti is looking for a way to have his ban shortened, I think he might need to communicate at another level. Objective, and polite. Not because you are talking to an admin, but because you are talking to another human being. I am not talking about "kissing feet", just normal words.... Can't be that hard.

Third:
This race is not an example of Jean Ragnotti being a nice fellow to race with. First crash seems unintentional. Second one does not, third one neither. Read what cargame.nl writes here about blue flag. Attitude in chatbox is not very nice too, to put it mildly.

I hope that I answered your question by this reply Jean.

Thxs Speedy you rule. Thats all i need to hear

Ok and now what?

Lol I was thinking just that. I guess you can expect a well-thought post from Jean now.

Nothing.
Like speedy said; as i noticed he actually read all what i wrote; i was looking for a short ban. If you read again, i put like 2 or 3 times that i take the blame for the accidents. The other part was to show my point of view, and to show im not a crasher, i just had a bad day, nothing else. I say again, i think you get it all wrong and you were blind by Extra comments.
Nevermind.

Uhmm I am afraid that you didn't read the part I wrote about communication (or was I not clear in that?)

There are no bad words, im just saying what think i saw here, for the ways he replied (videos, etc). And cause he didnt get it like you did, on 5 sentences.

I get it... The question is if you do get it...

Evade.. Brake!

Faster car does not have all the rights, not even under blue flag conditions.

lol i wasnt talking about that, you still dont get it. I was talking about a shorter penalty. I already know what you said. Lets cut it here. Sayonara.

I am sorry, but I have the right to reply to those absurd posts by Jean. I am sorry about being ironic, but this guy deserves it.

And to think that I was going to ask David to let him off...



You expect to punt someone out the track and they send you flowers? Oh wait, you mean that the only people that should be allowed on the server should be the ones that crash others out and are arrogant later when the ones that get bumped out complain about it, right.



Oh no, it is not your fault at all. It is the other cars that got punted out and got their race ruined that are at fault, that's right.



If you watch the replay, you had ALL THE SPACE IN THE WORLD to overtake me. Safely. And you didn't even have to brake very much by doing so. Oh, but you expect me to react in 0.00001 ms to jump into the grass or gravel or wherever so that you won't lose 0.5s in a lap.



Nice, you probably don't get punted out when you are under blue flag because the other driver is not Jean Ragnotti



Yes, I remember reading in the rules that when a driver is going for a fastest lap in an open multiclass server he is allowed to crash slower drivers out. Plus, it is common sense.



I don't race everyday and you race more frequently than I do, so you are allowed to behave the way you behaved. Right.



That's why I was going to ask Dave to let you off with less time. But your posts here show you have the mind of a 12 year old (and I even think I might be insulting 12 year olds by this statement).



You did not apologize. You simply hit the sorry key that you have mapped and that was it. Oh wait, that was not it. You were arrogant by making immature comments later on.



I refuse to reply to this quote. This is the most childish comment I have seen from an S2 licenced driver. And believe me, I have seen many.


More comments to come if I deem appropriate/necessary.

Come on, he had plenty of room. More than necessary.

Of course you didn't smile in an arrogant way. Of course you didn't bump other people out either.



The replay is there for all to see. The only person that has actually said something in your behalf was your team mate, Martin... And when he watched the replay a second time he actually agreed with us and told us you were probably having a bad day.

Oh, there is Litro, who actually thinks that only 2 of the 3 crashes that you caused are entirely your fault, and on the other crash I could have given more room, which still does not exempt you from being a jackass and punting me out... Even if you didn't have enough room, which you did.




Don't make me ask Dave to pull out the other replays in order to prove you are wrong. We actually have proof that others tried to reason with you.

"I know it so well". That actually made me laugh.



It is truly ridiculous the way that you still feel you have the right to behave the way you did because you race on the server more often.



I don't think the measure is appropriate either. I would rather Dave ban you completely from the server. You are truly lucky he is a nice guy and probably won't give you what you really deserve.



Thanks, but no thanks. I already watched one of your races on replay too many times and I will never learn to race the way you race. Which is damn fortunate for me, if you really want to know.

You did indeed have a bad race. And you got two weeks for that. Your attitude here shows, however, that it is not enough.

The more "good racers" such as yourself that leave the server, the merrier.



You still don't understand, do you? I actually started to explain, but I am not going to waste my time. Maybe in 10 years, when you are older, you will understand.




Unfortunately I work a lot and cannot play on a daily basis, nor refer to forums on a daily basis either. But when I saw the kind of posts that you wrote here, I just had to lose 1h of my leisure time, which is scarce, to reply.

And yes, I will always complain if I think there is something to complain about.

After all you have said and done, I half expect you not to properly understand posts made by other people. Unless you are actually agreeing that you have had the behaviour of a 12 year old up to now. I doubt it.

Oh, so I was wrong and you actually agree that you are being a complete arse? Why are you posting the way you are posting, then?

I fail to see where Dave's comments are so different than Speedy's (or the other racers except yourself)...

Jeeesus.

I'm glad we are ending here. This was a complete waste of 1h+ of my time. I'm not going to try and pump common sense into you. I don't expect an apology for all you have said against me here either, even though I had always been reasonable up to now.

And to think that I could have been using this time to race instead. Almost makes me regret these posts. Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered.

haha you are reading what you want Mtrein, and not all what i wrote. You only mentions the parts that benefit you. So lame. Im not interested in reply again, cause you can find the right answers there. Like i said you cant reach me.

PD: nl2dav can you erase this account please? i dont want to be part of this community. Thks

I can alter names but I will not erase accounts and/or posts unless there is private or other highly sensitive information in it.

---
I'm happy that you joined the discussion though because that is the main reason for a ban (unable to discuss something). It's a bit sad we can't agree 100% with each other. I however decided to unban you, for some things you feel sorry and thats enough for now. You did over a thousand laps without complains and that is worth something too. I think the rather small AS1 track and the high speed differences are also playing a role in this whole incident.

I just ask of you to be a little more gently with people who stick with the racing line, even when they get a blue flag.

Also didn't liked the smiling at all after the first crash, please don't do that anymore when someone can't continue racing thats not funny and that alone triggers the need for me to ban someone.

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy racing

I rest my case, Dave. What is to be said has been said, and although the immature attitude has been kept by Jean throughout the whole process, I agree with your decision. I just hope Jean changes his driving methods and we can get on racing from now on.

Jean - I doubt you read all my posts, otherwise you would have known that I left very little out.

Off for some

See you in the server.

thx nl2dav, i will.