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| Can we try to remove the GTRs? http://www.cargame.nl/forum/multiclass-server-gow/can-we-try-to-remove-the-gtrs-t4332.html |
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| Author: | Skagen [ Thu May 05, 2011 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can we try to remove the GTRs? |
Seeing how popular GT2 is on the S2 server, yet the GTR server is mostly empty, I was thinking we perhaps could try to make some changes to the allowed classes on the GTR server. Atleast for my part, GTR/GT1 is too much to handle. Im no good at it, and I really don't have any good races in that class. I guess it's the same for alot of GT2 drivers aswell. The problem (atleast for me) with a populated GTR server is that more or less everyone is racing the GTRs. So my options are either joining the rest in GTR, or racing all alone in GT2 - neither beeing very enjoyable. And I though maybe many of the regular GT2 racers on the S2 server is feeling the same way. So I was thinking if we could try without the GTR class for some time period, perhaps the S2 regulars will be more tempted to join the GTR server? |
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| Author: | Tooth [ Thu May 05, 2011 7:49 pm ] |
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Skagen wrote: Atleast for my part, GTR/GT1 is too much to handle. Eh, I dont really see a problem with GT1. I race it from time to time, it makes you appriciate GT2 lowers peeds and grip. You have to think alot faster and reaact in GT1. But on the GTR subject im with you. Ban from S2 and allow in GTR, so we get balanced and clearer races. 
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| Author: | Skagen [ Thu May 05, 2011 7:55 pm ] |
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It could be my sets that are crap. But in GT1, the car go straight forward while coasting, and does donuts when accelerating. I'd never think 120 HP or so would have such a significant effect on handling. Anyway, I'm terrible at GT1. 
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu May 05, 2011 8:33 pm ] |
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Short answer, no. Long answer; also no. Not before my work is finished. Which, takes longer then expected (of course) but it 'soon' is finished ( Hi Scawen   )Some of us already have a preview. I'm now in the phase of storing data to the main database and some general bugfix testing. Talking in days (hopefully  ).When this competition starts everything will be completely different. I even want to get rid of the Airio point system because it's unnecessary and let the server struggle a lot (way too much unnecessary data which kills performance). For some who directly flip; 'my points my points!' .. I will provide a history page here on the site .I didn't race seriously for weeks now and every time you see PRISM 0.3.3 (re)connected blabla, then I'm developing. The future is competition, not what is happening right now. It's boring  
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| Author: | sermilan [ Thu May 05, 2011 9:37 pm ] |
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cargame.nl wrote: Short answer, no. Long answer; also no. Loved the answer! If it means anything, I appreciate all the work you and others are doing in developing different LFS systems, tracks, applications etc. Hard work and most that you get in return is moaning about this and that... Personally, I am frustrated when not being able to drive GT2 on S2, but.... that's how it goes... hope the new system will bring some exciting changes 
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| Author: | Tooth [ Fri May 06, 2011 4:48 am ] |
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cargame.nl wrote: but it 'soon' is finished ( Hi Scawen ) I LAUGED SO HARD!  cargame.nl wrote: didn't race seriously for weeks now and every time you see PRISM 0.3.3 (re)connected blabla, then I'm developing. I understand that and appriciate.  Your making racing there better, and dealing with concequences alot easyer by your programming Skagen wrote: he car go straight forward while coasting, and does donuts when accelerating Thats the trick with balanced throtteling. You got flat out nearly all the time with FX/FZ/XR2 but XR1 you need patience and feel of the car Skagen wrote: 'd never think 120 HP or so would have such a significant effect on handling. =cargame.nl wrote: Short answer, no. Long answer; also no. It doesnt add that much effect on handling, more to the acceleration, speed, and cornering speeds. 70-80% of time it handles just like GT2. |
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| Author: | Ulmo [ Fri May 06, 2011 9:05 am ] |
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remove GT2 on s2 server ... why not Remove GTR on gtr server  , GTR is 100times more balanced than GT2, and more fun too .
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| Author: | Skagen [ Fri May 06, 2011 4:22 pm ] |
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Ulmo wrote: Remove GTR on gtr server , What difference would it make? It's not like it would effect alot of people. Unwillingness to make changes won't help the GTR server much. And unlike Dave, I don't see the point in having a empty server running. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri May 06, 2011 4:44 pm ] |
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Oh.. I got this all wrong. I thought this was about removing GT2 from the S2 server. Anyway GT1 or no GT1 on the GTR server doesn't matter. In fact it's not about the desirability to run full servers 'across the board' but the philosophy to offer all cars. Except the UF1, which does not fit in anywhere  The real problem is that there are not enough active racers and I doubt we will unlock a hidden pool of racers when GT1 gets disabled on the GTR server. |
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| Author: | Skagen [ Fri May 06, 2011 5:09 pm ] |
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My thought was to have the GT2 drivers slowly moving over to the GTR server themselves, without you having to enforce anything (on the S2 server). All in all, making the GTR server more attractive for GT2 drivers. 
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| Author: | Tooth [ Fri May 06, 2011 6:01 pm ] |
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Skagen wrote: My thought was to have the GT2 drivers slowly moving over to the GTR server themselves, without you having to enforce anything (on the S2 server). All in all, making the GTR server more attractive for GT2 drivers. Its all about winning mate. Noone wants to race against 4 people (Generally you have EXACTLY that many GT2, but..), and they go to server that has 30 people in. We have discussed it before, how to balance it.. |
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| Author: | Skagen [ Fri May 06, 2011 7:00 pm ] |
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Don't you see contradiction in your argument? Besides, in my opinion it's far from all about winning. It's the good racing and intense battles that draws me to the game. |
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| Author: | Tooth [ Fri May 06, 2011 7:52 pm ] |
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Skagen wrote: It's the good racing and intense battles that draws me to the game. I agree with you on that completely. But people join more to the server that has more people. GTR server is empty 90% of the time. My argument is, that people dont join GTR server just because its empty. + its better to see, you win alot of people, not like 3-4. Its evolution baby! |
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| Author: | sermilan [ Fri May 06, 2011 10:54 pm ] |
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Tooth wrote: GTR server is empty 90% of the time. My argument is, that people dont join GTR server just because its empty Exactly why I do not join there often. But I wouldn't mind if all GT2 racers would move to race there, because, even with the full S2 server, we only race our own class
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| Author: | Tooth [ Sat May 07, 2011 7:08 am ] |
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sermilan wrote: Exactly why I do not join there often.But I wouldn't mind if all GT2 racers would move to race there, because, even with the full S2 server, we only race our own class You just proved my argument! Thank you.
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| Author: | Skagen [ Sat May 07, 2011 3:50 pm ] |
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I am not saying number of opponents isn't a factor, quote the opposite. I just don't think it's that black and white. If no one ever joins a empty server, when (or how) did the S2 server start to populate? If your predictions was true, the S2 server should have been just as empty. So there must be something else that keeps the racers from joining the GTR server. Dave pointed out one of the reasons; the small pool of LFS racers. My point was the possiblity that racers prefering the GT2 just has two options if the want opponents: Either race GT1 on the GTR server, or GT2 on the S2 server. The choice easily falls on the GT2, regardless of the server. |
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| Author: | sermilan [ Sat May 07, 2011 5:43 pm ] |
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In the times when cargame S2 was establishing itself, there were much more active racers, so it was easier to populate any reasonably systematized server. Let's wait and see what Dave will bring to us soon, as he already announced complete change of the system 
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| Author: | Litro [ Sat May 07, 2011 8:52 pm ] |
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Need promotion for GTR server !
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| Author: | Tooth [ Sat May 07, 2011 10:16 pm ] |
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Litro wrote: Need promotion for GTR server Allready up in S2, if you havent noticed
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| Author: | marcromboy [ Sat May 07, 2011 10:32 pm ] |
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nobody reads it |
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| Author: | Litro [ Sun May 08, 2011 7:08 am ] |
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Yeah that line, quite anoying, tbh. But something more...video about gtr racing and gtr server ?  There are a lot of videos about racing in S2 server only. OK, that wouldn't help, but somebody must try it.
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| Author: | marcromboy [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:42 am ] |
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there was a day when the s2 was filled to 43 connections and about 12-15 gtr's driving around the track, speedy and me said we'll connect to gtr server et voila, everybody was joining right after us, so the server was filled with about 20 people driving the gt2 class within 10 minutes. its not about the promotion, there just needs to be some drivers over there, but nobody wants to join either its empty or the s2 is filled with a great amount of nice drivers aswell. litro, good idea. lets have a meeting on gtr servers with about 10-15 racers, drive around some nice races on different tracks, save the replays and make a 2-3 minute promotion video with the best footage, post it in the ofc. forum and we'll see whats happening. its worth the try. |
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| Author: | sermilan [ Sun May 08, 2011 3:11 pm ] |
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Litro's videos are always a prize I'll be there later tonight and hopefully we can get enough people to do a decent racing
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| Author: | Litro [ Sun May 08, 2011 3:52 pm ] |
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sermilan wrote: Litro's videos are always a prize Not me, someone else need to do it My videocard is broken, and can't play LFS.
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| Author: | Dave [ Sun May 08, 2011 3:59 pm ] |
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Why not just replace it? |
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| Author: | [TDRT]K.Harvey [ Tue May 31, 2011 1:30 pm ] |
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As the GTR server is less popular and some of the best racing happens when there is more than 5 people in a class, why not make it a single class server the busiest day, or make a rotation of what class is used from 1 day to another. |
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| Author: | Speedy J [ Tue May 31, 2011 1:42 pm ] |
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[TDRT]K.Harvey wrote: why not make it a single class server the busiest day Hmm, monday and tuesday only unrestricted GTR, not a bad idea in my opinion. But I can't look inside Dave's head (fortunately )
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue May 31, 2011 8:52 pm ] |
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 Believe me, you don't want too... I don't understand it, let alone you could But can't we just wait what will happen what effect the official patch is going to do when it gets announced by mail and all? |
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| Author: | [TDRT]K.Harvey [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:15 am ] |
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What could it hurt ... GTR server is empty anyway. My league experience is that maximum 2 classes can race on the same server with good competition. Best racing I've ever seen comes from the liveforspeed.be league, everyone in the same car, car changes every race. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:27 pm ] |
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League racing is not comparable to day to day racing. Changing cars all the time is not logical and in my eyes d2d racing needs logic. It maybe does not hurt to switch GTR to GTR only but I'll doubt there will be -more- racers online if there is a 'good' GTR server (AMG already has a popular one). Other say, make it a GTR+OW server again, everybody have different opinions but in the end there are just not enough racers online. Actually I do not want a shift in the current racer pool. Especially not from other race servers because the goal is -NOT- to achieve some sort monopoly or extend it (already playing a big part). The goal is to attract more racers who stick with racing online. And I have doubts that is going to be achieved by changing cars. I need help from LFS development and some other InSim things I want to see realized before that. The current system with rates, points and all this shizzle is too complex for some. That is the main problem right now. I want to get rid of points. Airio is struggling with the enormous amount of data right now (400 Mb!). You see a lot of new people leave because they get a error message they do not understand. They usually end up in a cruise server (which, not always is bad, I have to admit). But some things are changing anyway. There actually is a lot of change coming up already from LFS which is going to be difficult to grasp. Maybe it gets so busy on the S2 server that I need to scrap the GT2 class anyway because it's inactive all the time. That would be lovely actually  And.. It will be possible to lock or unlock cars for an individual person, which needs some coding (from my hand, maybe) but in the end I think its absolutely great. Lock and unlock in the LFS car selection screen I mean for individuals instead of a group. |
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| Author: | Tooth [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:06 pm ] |
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cargame.nl wrote: ock and unlock in the LFS car selection screen I mean for individuals instead of a group. By that you mean, an individual has to race for hes CARS not POINTS. As i see, it means, you dont have to win the race, in order to get good cars. Just drive around and get new classes? Or am i missing anything cargame.nl wrote: Airio is struggling with the enormous amount of data right now (400 Mb!) A minute? A second? A millisecond? A day? :O cargame.nl wrote: Maybe it gets so busy on the S2 server that I need to scrap the GT2 class anyway because it's inactive all the time. Dont do it mate. Seriously. You will lose racers in a week. People wont just join, they will just join AMG servers etc. GTR is the top class, you know? GT2 is good as the way it is now. Experienced drivers close racing. (With some exeptions, but thats in every class). Dont scrap GT1/2, so people will have somewhere to aim to! Those are just my ideas about the subject T.Lomp 
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| Author: | Speedy J [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:12 pm ] |
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Tooth wrote: GTR is the top class, you know? Good point actually. A lot of racers on S2 are when they begin, only working on getting to Class 5 so they will be able to drive GT2 (in traffic). Skipping the GT2 might have that disastorous effect yes. Well, maybe there is time enough to wait till the new system is developed. |
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| Author: | Tooth [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:17 pm ] |
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Speedy J wrote: Skipping the GT2 might have that disastorous effect yes. True, true. But you cant skip GTR/2 all together aswell. Talent will go missing. I've had pretty good races with guys that have just reached Class 5, and maybe in GTR they have practiced, ceep up with me (>.<)/ or pass me (>.<! ). So yeah, Only close races will occur in TBO class, but most good racers there just pull away from the pack and thats your race. With GTR/2 cars you got atleast a chance to gain maybe 1-2-3 sec per lap.(If faster :O). Try doing that in TBO, your tires will be screaming HELP after 1,5 lap  T.Lomp
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:21 pm ] |
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Tooth wrote: By that you mean, an individual has to race for hes CARS not POINTS. As i see, it means, you dont have to win the race, in order to get good cars. Just drive around and get new classes? Or am i missing anything Yes... It's not about that at all. But I think only a few people know how LFS works internally and what is going to change. I'll just have to force me to not try to explain it because it even gets worse Tooth wrote: A minute? A second? A millisecond? A day? :O No data of everything. It's stored in memory and gets filtered / sorted at every request like !pi. And that filtering/sorting is done in a very insufficient way. You need to know a bit more about database handling to know that bigger systems are not going to help anymore in this case but efficiency does. Sadly, I have no influence on that. |
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| Author: | Tooth [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:32 am ] |
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cargame.nl wrote: Yes... It's not about that at all. So i sayd right, you dont have to be that competitive to drive faster cars? cargame.nl wrote: I'll just have to force me to not try to explain it because it even gets worse Good, i whouldnt understand a thing  cargame.nl wrote: Sadly, I have no influence on that. But you have skills to improve /make new version, dont you? T.Lomp
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