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Offline Speedy J
Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:29 pm Post 
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Seems there are some racers on our servers who do not know the rules for clean racing. This especially occurs in the famous "Blue Flag"-situations.

In 15 minutes I got crashed by three GT2-drivers (I would not call them racers). A discussion followed in which it was clear that there is some misunderstanding (let's be mild about this...) about how to act in lapping situations.

I suggest that racers who do not know the rules or MAYBE do not know the rules read the following webpage of LFS:
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Clean_Racers_Club_Rules

Pay attention to the rules about lapping :roll:

Thank you very much for your time and be happy that you learned something.


Offline gandlers
Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:56 pm Post 
Yes,

I have had a few comments from GT2 "drivers" this weekend about "respect the blue" flag as I was holding my line on hte apex of a bend (which I was already in) when blue flagged. As I held my line and didnt dive onto the grass or pit/spectate myself to get out of his way he decided to trade paint with me on the exit (nearly wrecking me) and complain that I was ignoring the blue flag.
The rules you have linked to are the rules I have always followed, and to be honest unless you are a total imbecile should be common sense anyway.
Some of these GT2 "drivers" should try watching Le Mans or GT racing and take note of how the LMP cars behave towards the GTs etc. You dont see the GT cars having to dive out of the way when an LMP comes up to lap them. Some of these guys need to watch how its done and follow the example on the server.

You want to link to these rules on a sticky and point out that drivers are expected to follow them.

G


Offline Speedy J
Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:23 am Post 
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gandlers wrote:
ou want to link to these rules on a sticky and point out that drivers are expected to follow them.

Not only that of course. But I am a bit tired of having the same conversation over and over in the LFS-chat zo racers who do not know the rules ned to find that information here as well. So this subject needs extra attention which I think it will get by this topic. A lot of cargame racers read this forum.

Also I think I want to be a little more strict about especially the blue flag-situation in the servers. But to tell people to obey the racing rules you first must make sure they have a chance to know the racing rules :wink:


Offline Joe [FRA]
Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:18 am Post 
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Hi,

That's a good point, even if it's not obvious in all situations...

Yesterday (or the day before I don't remember) we (me and SpeedyJ) had a contact on T1 at Ky2(?), while overtaking you, I went out of the line, and when I tried to reach the apex, you became faster (as you stayed on the good line), and I didn't see you in the mirror.
This wasn't on purpose, as I just tried to overtake you (driving XFG) in a clean way... sometimes misunderstood happen, just because situations aren't that easy to evaluate.


On another hand, according to me, some others situations are difficult to appreciate and manage :

Lapping a guy who is racing since the beginning of the race must be done in a clean way, without "disturbing" him, and usually it's ok.

But, a guy who joined in the middle of the race should (and most of the time, they do) leave the race line under blue flag.

As it's not that easy to keep an eye on the map to check is "colour", you (I) can't decide if you stay or not on your line, or if you move out of the line to overtake, sometimes a misunderstand happens as a result (the lapped guy hesitates also to stay or not on his line)... and everyone is angry :-?

The only solution would be to forbid to join during race... but we also all know that joining out of the traffic is better than waiting several minutes to play :wink:

Joe


Offline Speedy J
Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:29 pm Post 
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Joe [FRA] wrote:
sometimes misunderstood happen, just because situations aren't that easy to evaluate.

Although you are totally right, this topic was not made for that kind of situation :wink: What happened between you and me was an accident; we BOTH tried to perform a clean (lapping) overtake but we failed. Again, that is not a problem.

This topic is about and for the racers on our servers who do not know the BASIC Clean Racing Rules and think it is okay to catapult cars off the track when they approach them and these cars are one (or more!) laps behind.

This situation is quite common for a bunch of (mostly GT2-)racers. This topic is here for their developement :)

Plus when I kick them for this repeated bad behavior I can point out the fact that there are rulezzzzzzzzzzzz about this subject and that we communicate these rulezzzzzzzz in our forum:wink:


Offline Joe [FRA]
Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:55 pm Post 
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Understood :thumb:

You can remove my post if you want to keep this topic clean :wink:


Offline gammelsokdk
Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:54 pm Post 
I can only say that I think this is what you mean SpeedJ :D

Overtaking

O-1: To obtain right of road position in a corner, the overtaker's car must have substantial overlap of the car that is being overtaken, before they reach the corner's turn-in point. Should the overtaking car not have enough overlap, the leading car may resume its racing line without fear of contact.

O-2: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner – right up to the exit point. That car should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.

O-3: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. That car should not be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after that car has already turned in, and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, (i.e. you barge your way past). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-so-ever as a barge passer.

O-4: Where an ahead driver has clearly made a sufficient error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. E.g. - If the ahead driver brakes too late and drifts out wide of the apex and then has to reduce speed etc. This would be a valid passing opportunity regardless of whether there was pre-existing overlap. However, there is still substantial responsibility on the overtaking driver to take all necessary care to avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not be sufficient to justify an attacking passing move however. Just because the ahead driver gets a bit out of shape at times does not give you an automatic right to pass uncontested by them or a right to room. You still have to judge if their error provides sufficient opportunity for a safe pass to take place.

O-5: Ahead drivers have the right to choose any line down a straight. The ahead driver may make one move to block the opposing car, and one move to return to the racing line before the next corner - Unless the opposing car has overlap.

O-6: Ahead drivers have the right to take any line through a corner, unless an opposing car has overlap.

Lapping

L-1: It is a fundamental rule of motorsport and sim racing that when a driver receives a blue flag, this is to let the driver know that a faster car is about to overtake and put that driver a lap down.

L-2: The driver that is overtaking/lapping the slower car must treat the situation as though a normal competitor is being overtaken - and not assume the lapped driver should leap out of the way at all costs.

L-3: The driver that is being lapped should let the lead driver past and/or not resist to be overtaken. Only move out of the way for the lead driver when you believe it is safe to do so. For example, not on the apex of a corner.

Taking straight from the rulezzzzzzzzzzzzz :roflol:

Gammelsokdk


Offline Speedy J
Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:55 pm Post 
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Did you copy that straight from the link I put in?In other words, should I read it?


Offline gammelsokdk
Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:43 pm Post 
hehe yep I did :D

And yes it could be a good thing if people read it :D


Offline BMW-gek
Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:56 pm Post 
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I had it on a bind for these discussions......


Offline Dave
Site Admin
Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:11 pm Post 
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I banned Svenso0n yesterday for a day because he thinks he owns the road and expresses in such a way as well to other racers about how to behave on blue flag situations. (Get out of the way, spectate if necessary, blabla :fp: :no: :duh: :nothanks: )


Offline fadeaway
Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:10 am Post 
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:lol: ... :fp:


Offline gammelsokdk
Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:30 am Post 
Hehe Give him a Link to my post and say he shall read it :D

I got to say that I got the official 533 permit, And it means that I should know the Flag-rules IRL :D

Thats why I often wonders when people are screaming about Blue flag MOVE!!!! :D

/Sokken


Offline Dave
Site Admin
Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:40 am Post 
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Yeah well, sorry guys, I know some of you race every day and thats very sweet ( :hug: ) and stuff but with such busy racing servers and different classes we have to respect each other a bit. If thats not possible you have to move to a server with less classes (GTR O:) ) or to an elite server. Have to admit, the last ones are hard to find these days. And honestly, I do not like that myself.


Offline Nicce
Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:00 pm Post 
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acctualy i´ve NEVER been reading that text about "clean racers guide book"
but i´ve learnd the hard way i guess or just the easiest way >driving alot in lfs both drifting and racing..
ye i guess u guys dont like that word and closest u have been to a "real drift" is a hard powerslide but to my point of this is: drifting comunity is one way and racing comunity is one and in the end if u start with 1 u learn how to be on the other. well, sort of. ;)

i cant say i´m clean racer but its not often i mess it on lappin slowercars. OFC its not fun to end up behinde a group of xfg´s-tbo class and u see nr2 is closing the gap.. what to do ? i just chill.. ye he´s gonna take 1st place.. so what ?? idc.
should i mess that slowercar up just because he in the way in JUST that corner because i want to win with 10s lead.. sorry but thats just not my style.. (f)

and ye nr2 in one race >win the rest of 4/5 and u annyway showed ur point u can win and still be a nice guy on the same time to a lowerclass. :woop:

regards Nicce


Offline Nick7
Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:48 am Post 
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More people should read this...

Like yesterday. AS3, and I'm in LX4. After final chicane, straight, I'm in almost middle of road, and blueflagged XFR is coming... I keep my line, and see him closing in behind just to get rammed by him and hit off track.
I'm like 'wtf???', and he goes 'you had blue flag'????
He had all the space on both left and right side... he didn't move an inch. He wouldn't lose ANY speed if he moved, and it was a bit after the chicane, so it's not like he couldn't get proper line...

So yeah... more people do need to read this.


Offline Speedy J
Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:44 am Post 
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Nick7 wrote:
I'm like 'wtf???', and he goes 'you had blue flag'????

Report that kind of behavior please. These bandits get a warning and a link to the clean racing rules. After that it's a safety drop or worse. If it is up to me :D

More and more people reach class 5 so these rules should really be known among all. That's also why I think we need to be more strict in this....


Offline Nicce
Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 am Post 
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:aai:
same track but: me in fz2 and Nick7 in T1.. i had entry speed around 200.. see Nick7 going into the corner WAY slower.. all idid was SLAM the brakes did a 4way lockup and cut the inside harder. i still had close to the same exit speed.. :woop:

after the race i said sorry for scare him/u and make u go little wider.. "lookd like u was afraid of me. ;)"

imo.. if u act good and respectful to others, they normaly give the same in return EVEN if u are in the same class, right Nick7 ?? :coke:


Offline eXeYn
Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:09 pm Post 
The problem is that many drivers are casual ones or beginners who just race 1-2 hours. They are not really into the whole LFS community, league and behaviour stuff. And honestly i would sort me into that as well.

So the only way into clean racing is to get the experience in the races. But many don't want to put so much effort into a game and rather wanna have fun for the time. Therefore they join full servers and honestly they will mostly just join cargame like I do. The consequence is that there are always a few around who are not so reliable.

They maybe watch Fomula 1 where blue flagged cars move aside. In the beginning I also thought you have to move aside as soon as possible. I even didn't know that there exists LFS Rules for Clean Racing until I saw this thread. The only choice we have is to accept that some people will always mess up a race of someone. Seriously this is a multiclass server with many available slots. Be nice to everyone and try to explain things to the beginners. Offer them help, train them or whatever. The only thing I see at the moment is terrible flaming about everything. The only one giving much effort into helping is especially Speedy J. Maybe we should think more about helping others getting into LFS rather than flaming the instant when someone does not know what LFS is all about.


Offline Speedy J
Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:16 pm Post 
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eXeYn wrote:
I even didn't know that there exists LFS Rules for Clean Racing until I saw this thread.

That's why it is here and sticky mate 8)
eXeYn wrote:
Maybe we should think more about helping others getting into LFS

:cheer: YEAAHH!!!! That is exáctly what I have in mind by making this thread and chatting (spamming :[ ) about it in the LFS-chat. Some may think I am nagging but I am sure that the regular racers (like you and many of the others who are active on this forum a well) will politely communicate these rules (and the existence of this thread even maybe) in the server when there is no admin around to deal with this issue.

And that is what I like so much about LFS and a whole lot of racers in the cargame servers :lief: :thumb: :thumb:


Offline Nick7
Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:20 pm Post 
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Nicce wrote:
-snip-

If I can I will try to give place for blue flagged to pass... granted in slower cars I did spin out due to it few times :P
But, in this case you had blue flag, and if I lose a little bit of time going wider, it's no problem for me.
Chicane before straight can be tricky tho... because if you see blue flagged coming it's hard to decide - as if you go for 'slowing down' you basically would need to wait 2-3 seconds until he passes, or you 'meet' near exit of it.


Offline gammelsokdk
Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:10 pm Post 
The problem with this slowing down before a chicane, Is that you prolly gets a yellow flag for it so imo, finish your turn andthen make some room for the passing dude, Who allso have to wait a little before overtaking, So it will be clean as possible :D

/sokken


Offline Joe [FRA]
Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:58 am Post 
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Hi,

Why not display a "welcome message" that explains (in short) the blue flag rules, during the (I don't know) 20 first connections to Cargame ?

Joe


Offline Nick7
Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:46 pm Post 
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Good point.. at least make a note to check this page (or directly on LFS site) for blue flag rules.


Offline rageshgr
Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:41 am Post 
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Please delete this post. Read the below post.


Offline rageshgr
Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:42 am Post 
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+1 on Joe[FRA]'s idea. This is what I said in my other post as well. Sorry for the late bump, but I didn't want to make a redundant thread. Increasing number of class 5 drivers are ignorant about multi-class blue flag overtakes. Today one guy tried to lap/ram me at the Fern Bay club downhill chicane. Driving one car there is difficult enough, so I avoided the impending collision by taking grass, that too I think only 1 GTR was racing so its not like he was battling, but then again I think I joined at end of lap 1 , so took grass anyway. But you get the idea. Another time, one guy complained that I blocked him at AS3 T1, and I messed up his 2 laps and he was 4 sec faster than me. But my point is, the rule O-1: The leading car may assume racing line if there is no overlap. So just raced in my racing line. But then again I think he was mad at me coz in lap 1, when he was drafting, I tried to avoid him drafting me by moving right and there was a slight harmless contact for which I apologised anyways. So I too have made my share of mistakes. But my point is there are some misunderstandings. I got class 5 and access to GT2 today, so I can be selfish and forget about being rammed by GT2's, but I don't, in fact, I think I have got more responsibility now, and was wondering how all higher class racers can be educated about MCR blue flags. Cargame.nl enforced pretty strict rank/exp/safety rating for a driver to be in class4/5 etc. At this level of experience, one cannot use ignorance as excuse for running over slower cars. Today I waited from 1st sector to 3rd sector in my FX2 behind a UFB because I knew UFB was fast in tight sections.

There is another thing I want to bring to notice, different classes are fighting for positions, this is totally unnecessary and damaging for both classes. Take FE3, the WR of UFB is slower than WR of XRT, but an average UFB driver can easily get close to WR, but it is difficult for a XRT guy to get close to WR. The other day, I was stuck behind a XRT doing 1:40s while my UFB can do 1:38's even when I am sleeping, he was fighting with me for position whenever I try to pass him. If he let me pass, we both can drive on our merry ways and we both can drive faster, and with a 2 sec a lap lead, he is not gonna catch up to me either. I could have requested him to allow me to pass but I didn't have a key bind for that and I race with KB so I can't type and drive. Sorry for the rant, and this is not reporting, I am just bringing to notice the pattern of lack of awareness about multi-class racing.


Offline eXeYn
Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:01 am Post 
The chance that anyone reads the entry screen is somewhere between non-existent and 5%. Half of the new drivers still ask why they cannot drive a car. Although it says why in the entry screen. Makes more sense to put the rules under a text command.

Regarding UFB. UFB tend to piss off XFG/XRG as well. And you are an example of that. Diving until the sun shines again ... I'd much rather see UFB getting banned than always having to give way to them just to pass them on the straight again. That gets even annoying in XFG/XRG when the guy in the UFB screws up and falls back to you again. Should the XFG/XRG throw a lap away again? I guess they won't ban the UFB but at least consider raising the requirement. Class 4 for UFB. Right now every newcomer learns that diving or pushing in a corner is the way to go.

UFB causes so much havoc with XFG/XRG and TBO depending on the track. :angry: :thumb_d:


Offline rageshgr
Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:54 am Post 
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Dude, those were just examples. I understand UFBs can sometimes piss off other cars. I didn't get you, what do you mean by I am example of that? You don't like me driving for long hours in the server? Or tell me if I did anything wrong, so I can correct. UFB taking inside line to pass need not be considered as dive bomb, so long as its clean. And XRG/XFG are too slow to pass UFB again in most straights. Once UFB passes XRG/XFG, they can hardly catch up UFB in straights. My example was about XRT. Not XFG/XRG. XRT is in class 2 and UFB is in class1, so I am saying cars in different classes need not compete with each other. That was my main point. UFB/XRT was merely an example. If you are saying that UFB(class1) is fighting for position with XRT(class2), then it is again same as my example where cars in different classes are fighting, jn your example, the UFB driver is at fault. IF UFB is pissing off other cars, that is also wrong. My point is regardless of whose fault it is, cars in different classes need not fight with each other. UFBs should let XRTs pass in staright. XRTs should let UFBs pass in corner. Peace. I do agree with you somewhat that UFB need not be enabled in class1 because new drivers may learn wrong technique. And UFB is much faster than XRG/XFG on 90% tracks(except Oval), so UFB will be class winner, so may be UFB can have separate class 1+ :) And if you want ban UFB, do it, I don't mind. It is not like I invented UFB and I sit and cry in a corner just 'coz UFB is banned. Although I like that car for its amazing grip and handling, it is not like I can't live without UFB.


Offline eXeYn
Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:44 am Post 
Yes I don't like the way you dive in. And you do it often.
Why would I complain about a clean dive? Makes no sense. But the reality is that 50% of the UFB dive in from 200 meter behind you and crash into you.
Take a long straight and XFG/XRG can overtake again.

As an XRT letting UFB pass in a corner and then overtake on straight again can be the worst thing ever. In the worst case you can have the whole race changing position with UFB for no good reason at all. If more UFB are joining the "fun" it gets even "better". It's just incredible how often UFB can disturb the race of other classes. So why should I let them pass freely in front of a corner if the consequence is a long lasting disturbance in my race with other same laptime cars. Not fighting them can mean the end of the race for you as your real competition gets far away.

I also don't regard UFB as a car in the same class as XFG/XRG. The differences are way too extreme to have joyful racing with them. From the beginning of the race to the end while driving XFG/XRG in a full server the biggest and worst annoyance is a grid full of UFB. I was never so pissed off at tracks like FE3 or BL. Lap after lap gets thrown away. In my opinion UFB can be quite a nuisance. Especially since lately when somehow many want to drive this car.

Maybe the same connection restriction as GT2 can help but I seriously doubt it.


Offline rageshgr
Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:58 am Post 
User avatar
I am sorry if my diving is a bit too aggressive, I will be more passive hence. Seems you have a thing against UFB :). Regarding the XRT example, he was a really inexperienced XRT driver whose whole lap time was 2 seconds slower than UFB, so the changing positions won't happen. In fact many UFBs had passed him and he never caught up with them. I was stuck behind him as I didn't attempt a too risky maneavour. Assume a good XRT driver doing 1:34s in FE3, I would glady back off in my UFB, as he would gain and increase his gap and we won't disturb each other. But in this case, the XRT was totally slower, not only in corner, and he was alone at the back of the TBO pack by a good margin :). So are UFBs supposed to race behind slower cars for the whole race? That is also unacceptable don't you think? Ah we are digressing.


Offline eXeYn
Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:22 am Post 
Therefore my suggestion to ban it or to put heavy restrictions on it. I just don't see the point of a car which has such a distinctive behaviour that many cars get into trouble with them. However that may be. The grip in the corners due to slicks provokes a lot of bad situations. Especially since you lose the most time in corners. It's highlighted by a full server and/or a lot of UFB.


Offline rageshgr
Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:24 pm Post 
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lol, just coz u don't like UFB, you want to ban UFB by blaming all faults on UFB I think. Similarly everyone starts banning the cars which they don't like. Some will ask to ban GT2 for similar reason may be. This is multi-class racing. Each car is different. Similar probs arises with LX4+TBO. Where LX will out accelerate TBO, but may get out paced at long straights etc. But as you said, may be we can try 50% restriction for UFB(C), but then all corners will be full throttle and situation may worsen. May be we can have UFA/XFA instead of UFB. UFA/XFA would mean drivers can't just power through corners at full throttle :)


Offline Speedy J
Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:15 pm Post 
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As much as I hate the noise when I am in XFG and an UFB is close in front or behind (or beside), as said it is multiclass racing and UFB fits in nicely, especially for beginning drivers.

Get used to it eXeYn :wink:


Offline Nicce
Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:15 pm Post 
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eXeYn wrote:
Makes more sense to put the rules under a text command.

Make a bigger text with a flashy color > yellow or white with a button that says: Do u understand this (Yes)(No) << clicky?s :yes:


eXeYn wrote:
That gets even annoying in XFG/XRG when the guy in the UFB screws up and falls back to you again.

^main reaon i stopd running for !wr on OC with STD?s. :x :x
if i know the rest of the class is quicker than me in Xfg mainly vs UFB. :=) if they are: i run for !wr.. if not.. well read first sentence.

(allways fun to write tho: Xfg vs "enter car here" in chatt and see the reaction. :roflol: )

OT: include GT3 again on CGs2 Dave.. plzzzzzzzzzzzz O:) O:)


Offline rageshgr
Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:44 am Post 
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Yes plzzz GT3 pls :) it rocks, it is the UFB of the GTR world :) You know speedy knows this, last month I got GT3 enabled in KY3 when I was only in class 3 or 4. May be it was a bug when GT2 was disabled or something, I really enjoyed driving FX3 in KY3, in spite of using a random set by just adding restriction :)


Offline mtrein
Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:37 am Post 
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Wouldn't GT3 muck up TBO/LX4, though?


Offline rageshgr
Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:57 am Post 
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GT3 is much faster than TBO in straights and corners IMO, so they won't conflict I guess. But will GT3 muck up XFR/UFR? possible little bit. class 2/2+ and class 3 are too slow for GT3s to be conflicting.


Offline mtrein
Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:50 am Post 
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:thumb:


Offline fadeaway
Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:58 pm Post 
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gt3 :thumb:


Offline MotEgni
Thu May 17, 2012 11:02 am Post 
First of all I wanna say hey to everyone, im MotEgni (same name ingame, or Tom If u wanne say hey). Im all new to this LFS experience, only been driving for 2-3 weeks, but I love the game, and the way the community, especially the Cargame guys, have helped me out and been nothing but nice. Been reading a lot in the forums, both here and lfs, and there seem to be some disagreement if the community / game is dying cos off all sorts different stuff, lack of updates, idiots playing that dont know the rules and so on and so on.

I do not want to step on anyones toes, but as a newbie I have made one big experience. The Cargame servers are great, a lot of different classes also alowing noobs like me driving the small slower cars. BUT, all the "pros" seem to live in a bubble that they own the road, they drive big fast cars and if you get blue flagged, you better move, or they hit you off the road, or if they are kind enough to not do that, they give you a hell of a verbal beating instead. As i am a beginner and a) dont want to interrupt/destroy their races and b) dont wanna get in a argument with them, I move as fast as I can, or stay on a straight line allowing them to pass me without problems and. So give beginners pointers or refer them to this clean racing thread, so they learn rather then quit.

As I love the game and online racing (tho I still have a lot to learn) I think many newcomers will get scared / put off by this behaviour and for sure will not help getting fresh blood into the game.

I may have said something here that will get all the pros on my neck :fp: but I can take it, im a grown man and dont mean this as moaning or something, just a post of my meaning and what may help get new guys like myself stick around longer instead of going elsewhere playing other racing games, where they wont get verbally molested every time they do a mistake. After all it is a public server, not a elite racing server, right?

See you on the track :thumb:


Offline Nicce
Thu May 17, 2012 12:22 pm Post 
User avatar
MotEgni wrote:
BUT, all the "pros" seem to live in a bubble that they own the road,


There is difference of thoes so called pro drivers. ;) Its the once that are clean, fast and nice ppl, the once that are trying to go clean and be nice but not so fast, and the once that are trying to hard and fail more than do good but are still nice ppl. and there is the rest that just dont give a flying sh-t if they destroy someone elses race just because they drive the highest class or anny other class for that mather.

but in general.. sh-t do happens even for the best drivers on CarGames servers. :-)

MotEgni wrote:
After all it is a public server, not a elite racing server, right?


correct man. :-) its a public racing server open for everyone and annytime. :-)
ur way of saying -elite server- i guess u mean league server. :-D - closed server with password that mostly are running 90min-24h races with driver changes and all. - :)


Offline Brillemonster
Thu May 17, 2012 12:25 pm Post 
Hi Tom,
I allready drove against you, and in my opinion you're a good racer, keep it up!

And for the blue flags, the main thing is:
Don't do anything abrupt, and do NOT fight the faster car, you're a lap (or more) down on him.
Judge the situation, and make way, if it is possible. Don't go offtrack to make place. If a corner is not a place to let him lap you, than he has to wait until corner exit.
It is up to the faster car, to overtake you safely.


Offline Speedy J
Thu May 17, 2012 3:45 pm Post 
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It is harder to learn experienced drivers the rules for lapping than to learn newbies the rules of blue flag :wink:

I would say 95% of the experienced drivers in there fast cars know the rules and act by them. It is only a small part of them who think they own the track.

As admins we act on people who do not race by the rules. Either newbies or experienced racers. In the openingspost is a link to the rules for LFS racing. They apply to the Cargame servers as well.

Well, that's the theoratical part. In practise, we see different stuff sometimes. But I must say, it goes better and better in the past two years CG-servers are alive. And there will always be ignorant or arrogant drivers. Let's try to teach them. That makes the community and a nice server. Even though it is public :[


Offline MotEgni
Thu May 17, 2012 4:13 pm Post 
Yes I agree, most of the time its fun and clean, and all credits to you guys in CarGame for keeping the server up and running.

As i said, was not meant to sound grumpy or anything, just as im new, im gathering new impressions everyday and just thought id share some of them. Certainly im also learning a lot every day. Even tho im not so strong in English I belive there is a saying like:"One rotten apple spoils the whole basket" :dood:

So all good, keep the good work up CG :thumb:


Offline Pierre Dole
Thu May 17, 2012 9:43 pm Post 
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Hi Tom, it was interessting to read your statement. You still see everything with different eyes like the others who are experienced and got routine. I remember when i started with LFS and joined my current racing team. They said: the next league season will start in a week and you WILL drive with us. Hell, that was an adventure! An LFS 2-weeks-newbie in a league rife with 'pros' and a season with 15 races. :lol: I guess, you feel now the same on cargame servers. :D You are there really thrown in at the deep end. But dont worry, thats the fastest way to learn. :thumb:


Offline Skagen
Thu May 17, 2012 10:23 pm Post 
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Just be predictable and, if can be done safely, allow for some room when you get the blue flag. Keep your line, and only change if the time gap between you and the faster car is several seconds. Never go off the track to let the faster car pass, it should simply not be expected of you. Follow these tips, and no one can blame you for anything in a blue flag situation. :)

But there is allways those who think the class rank comes with rights to be unaffected by lower class ranks. Traffic is just part of multiclass.


Offline gammelsokdk
Fri May 18, 2012 7:30 am Post 
Hey Tom

I have taken the "Blue flag" section of the rules and copy/pasted it here, And I know that CG are going by them.

Overtaking

O-1: To obtain right of road position in a corner, the overtaker's car must have substantial overlap of the car that is being overtaken, before they reach the corner's turn-in point. Should the overtaking car not have enough overlap, the leading car may resume its racing line without fear of contact.

O-2: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner – right up to the exit point. That car should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.

O-3: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. That car should not be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after that car has already turned in, and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, (i.e. you barge your way past). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-so-ever as a barge passer.

O-4: Where an ahead driver has clearly made a sufficient error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. E.g. - If the ahead driver brakes too late and drifts out wide of the apex and then has to reduce speed etc. This would be a valid passing opportunity regardless of whether there was pre-existing overlap. However, there is still substantial responsibility on the overtaking driver to take all necessary care to avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not be sufficient to justify an attacking passing move however. Just because the ahead driver gets a bit out of shape at times does not give you an automatic right to pass uncontested by them or a right to room. You still have to judge if their error provides sufficient opportunity for a safe pass to take place.

O-5: Ahead drivers have the right to choose any line down a straight. The ahead driver may make one move to block the opposing car, and one move to return to the racing line before the next corner - Unless the opposing car has overlap.

O-6: Ahead drivers have the right to take any line through a corner, unless an opposing car has overlap.

Lapping

L-1: It is a fundamental rule of motorsport and sim racing that when a driver receives a blue flag, this is to let the driver know that a faster car is about to overtake and put that driver a lap down.

L-2: The driver that is overtaking/lapping the slower car must treat the situation as though a normal competitor is being overtaken - and not assume the lapped driver should leap out of the way at all costs.

L-3: The driver that is being lapped should let the lead driver past and/or not resist to be overtaken. Only move out of the way for the lead driver when you believe it is safe to do so. For example, not on the apex of a corner.

Taking straight from the rulezzzzzzzzzzzzz

Happy racing M8

/Sokken


Offline OTone
Sat May 19, 2012 1:51 pm Post 
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Speedy J wrote:
Seems there are some racers on our servers who do not know the rules for clean racing. This especially occurs in the famous "Blue Flag"-situations.

In 15 minutes I got crashed by three GT2-drivers (I would not call them racers). A discussion followed in which it was clear that there is some misunderstanding (let's be mild about this...) about how to act in lapping situations.

I suggest that racers who do not know the rules or MAYBE do not know the rules read the following webpage of LFS:
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Clean_Racers_Club_Rules

Pay attention to the rules about lapping :roll:

Thank you very much for your time and be happy that you learned something.


huh? What?
Im sorry but I didnt read...


hehehehehe


Offline oz3bto
Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:12 pm Post 
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IRL racing blue flag means that a faster car is comming.. Give room for passing ..

Not drive off track or quit the race .. But try to help him pass without anyone have to go off road

You DONT!!! pass in a corner but on a straight pice of track

In some races (Rallycross/folkerace) you have to quit the race if you get lapped :o


Offline Jonboy
Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:52 am Post 
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Yo Guyz Just like to add my own opinion of the server.
Well end of the day it's the one I connect to most days.
So I must like it..
I don't like being bad mouthed, as I have put up with it most of my life, and I don't see why I should have to put up with it on here?
Specially when I am a regular player and through past mistakes of being mouthy myself, I genuinely have made an effort with everyone..
Including those that have grievances against me.
I do my best and always try to beat myself, not everyone out there, and most of the time, I have great races..
But there is still an odd occasion that I get yelled and abused at, for maybe slowing another when 99.9 percent of the time I am alert and always think of the other cars around me..
Those that regularly race against me will already know this.
I do love this server though and I have to say that the overall Cargame servers are pretty awesome.
And would like to thank all those that I have had the pleasure of racing with.
I know from what I have read on here, some of you help with improving LFS.
Keep up the Great Work!
5/5 Stars from me! :thumb:


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